Osho on Jiddu Krishnamurti

Osho on Jiddu Krishnamurti
Osho on Jiddu Krishnamurti

In his talks, Osho has talked and commented on different people and one of them was Jiddu Krishnamurti. I have tried to collect all the sayings of Osho on Jiddu Krishnamurti. Enjoy it!!

 

Books I have Loved  #Session 3

I love this man, and I hate this man. I love him because he speaks the truth, but I hate him for his intellectuality. He is only reason, rationality. I wonder, he may be a reincarnation of that goddamned Greek Aristotle. His logic is what I hate, his love is what I respect – but his book is beautiful. This was his first book after his enlightenment, and the last too. Although many other books have appeared they are only poor repetitions of the same.

 

Socrates Poisoned Again After 25 Centuries #Session 25

Krishnamurti failed because he could not touch the human heart; he could only reach the human head.

The heart needs some different approaches. This is where I have differed with him all my life: unless the human heart is reached, you can go on repeating parrot-like, beautiful words – they don’t mean anything.

Whatever Krishnamurti was saying is true, but he could not manage to relate it to your heart. In other words, what I am saying is that J. Krishnamurti was a great philosopher but he could not become a master. He could not help people, prepare people for a new life, a new orientation.

But still I love him, because amongst the philosophers he comes the closest to the mystic way of life. He himself avoided the mystic way, bypassed it, and that is the reason for his failure.

But he is the only one amongst the modern contemporary thinkers who comes very close, almost on the boundary line of mysticism, and stops there.

Perhaps he’s afraid that if he talks about mysticism people will start falling into old patterns, old traditions, old philosophies of mysticism. That fear prevents him from entering. But that fear also prevents other people from entering into the mysteries of life.

I have met thousands of Krishnamurti people – because anybody who has been interested in Krishnamurti sooner or later is bound to find his way towards me, because where Krishnamurti leaves them, I can take their hand and lead them into the innermost shrine of truth.

You can say my connection with Krishnamurti is that Krishnamurti has prepared the ground for me. He has prepared people intellectually for me; now it is my work to take those people deeper than intellect, to the heart; and deeper than the heart, to the being.

My Way: The Way of the White Clouds #Session 12

This is what Krishnamurti has been saying continuously for forty, fifty years: “Don’t follow. People can reach without following anybody” – but the path is arduous and very long because you are not ready to accept any help or guidance which can be given to you – which is possible and which can cut many unnecessary difficulties on the path. This is what Krishnamurti has been saying – nobody has done it.

[Tweet theme=”tweet-box-shadow”]Don’t follow. People can reach without following anybody.[/Tweet]

This is the problem of the mind. The mind can accept this – not because it has understood, but because it is very ego-fulfilling not to follow anybody. Nobody wants to follow anybody. Deep down the ego resists.

So around Krishnamurti all the egoists have gathered. They are again deceiving themselves. They think they are not following anybody because they have understood the fallacies of following, they have understood that the path has to be traveled alone, they have understood that no help is possible, nobody can help you, nobody can guide you; you have to travel alone. They think that they have understood this, that’s why they are not following anybody.

That is not the real thing – they are deceiving. They are not following because their ego won’t allow it. And, still they go on listening to Krishnamurti. For years together they go, again and again.

If no help is possible, why do you go again and again to Krishnamurti? If nobody can guide you, what is the point of listening to him again and again? It is pointless.

And even this attitude, that you have to travel the path alone, is not discovered by you – it has been revealed to you by Krishnamurti. Deep down he has become your master. But you go on saying that you don’t follow – this is a deception.

The same deception can happen from the reverse side. You come to me, you think you have surrendered, and still you go on choosing. If I say something that suits you – that means it suits your ego – you follow it. If I say something which doesn’t suit your ego, you start rationalizing: “This may not be for me.” So you feel that you have surrendered, and you have not surrendered.

People around Krishnamurti think they are not following anybody, and they are following. Around me you think you are following me and you are not following me. Mind is always a deceiver. Wherever you go it can deceive you, it will deceive you – so be alert.

 
Rinzai: Master of the Irrational #Session 5

J. Krishnamurti, a man who struggled for ninety years – his last words have some great meaning. One of my friends was present there.

Krishnamurti lamented, he lamented his whole life. He lamented that “people have taken me as an entertainment. They come to listen to me….” There are people who have listened to him for fifty years continually, and still they are the same people as had come for the first time to listen to him.

 Naturally it is annoying and irritating that the same people…Most of them I know, because J. Krishnamurti used to come only once a year for two or three weeks to Bombay, and slowly, slowly all his followers in Bombay became acquainted with me. They all were sad about this point: What should be done? How can we make Krishnamurti happy?

The reason was that Krishnamurti only talked, but never gave any devices in which whatever he was talking about became an experience. It was totally his fault.

Whatever he was saying was absolutely right, but he was not creating the right climate, the right milieu in which it could become a seed.

Of course he was very much disappointed with humanity, and that there was not a single person who had become enlightened through his teachings. His teachings have all the seeds, but he never prepared the ground.

Zen does not deny entertainment the way J. Krishnamurti condemned it in his last testament to the world. He said, “Religion is not entertainment.” That’s true, but enlightenment can be vast enough to include entertainment in it.

Enlightenment can be multidimensional. It can include laughter, it can include love, it can include beauty, it can include creativity. There is nothing to keep it from the world and from transforming the world into a more poetic place, a more beautiful garden. Everything can be brought to a better state of grace.

Death of the mystic, J. Krishnamurti

Question: J. Krishnamurti died last Monday, In Ojai, California. In the past you have spoken of him as another enlightened being. Would you please comment on his death?

Answer: The death of an enlightened being like J. Krishnamurti is nothing to be sad about, it is something to be celebrated with songs and dances. It is a moment of rejoicing.

His death is not a death. He knows his immortality. His death is only the death of the body. But J. Krishnamurti will go on living in the universal consciousness, forever and forever.

Just three days before J. Krishnamurti died, one of my friends was with him; and he reported to me that his words to him were very strange. Krishnamurti was very sad and he simply said one thing: “I have wasted my life. People were listening to me as if I am an entertainment.”

The mystic is a revolution; he is not entertainment.

If you hear him, if you allow him, if you open your doors to him, he is pure fire. He will burn all that is rubbish in you, all that is old in you, and he will purify you into a new human being. It is risky to allow fire into your being—rather than opening the doors, you immediately close all the doors.

But entertainment is another thing. It does not change you. It does not make you more conscious; on the contrary, it helps you to remain unconscious for two, three hours, so that you can forget all your worries, concerns, anxieties—so that you can get lost in the entertainment.

You can note it: as man has passed through the centuries, he has managed to create more and more entertainments, because he needs more and more to be unconscious. He is afraid of being conscious, because being conscious means to go through a metamorphosis.

I was more shocked by the news than by the death. A man like J. Krishnamurti dies, and the papers don’t have space to devote to that man who for ninety years continuously has been helping humanity to be more intelligent, to be more mature. Nobody has worked so hard and so long. Just a small news article, unnoticeable—and if a politician sneezes it makes headlines.

Question: What is your connection with Krishnamurti?

Answer: It is a real mystery. I have loved him since I have known him, and he has been very loving towards me. But we have never met; hence the relationship, the connection is something beyond words.

We have not seen each other ever, but yet…perhaps we have been the two persons closest to each other in the whole world. We had a tremendous communion that needs no language, that need not be of physical presence….

You are asking me about my connection with him. It was the deepest possible connection—which needs no physical contact, which needs no linguistic communication. Not only that, once in a while I used to criticize him, he used to criticize me, and we enjoyed each other’s criticism—knowing perfectly well that the other does not mean it.

Now that he is dead, I will miss him because I will not be able to criticize him; it won’t be right. It was such a joy to criticize him. He was the most intelligent man of this century, but he was not understood by people.

He has died, and it seems the world goes on its way without even looking back for a single moment that the most intelligent man is no longer there. It will be difficult to find that sharpness and that intelligence again in centuries.

But people are such sleep walkers, they have not taken much note. In newspapers, just in small corners where nobody reads, his death is declared. And it seems that a ninety-year-old man who has been continuously speaking for almost seventy years, moving around the world, trying to help people to get unconditioned, trying to help people to become free—nobody seems even to pay a tribute to the man who has worked the hardest in the whole of history for man’s freedom, for man’s dignity.

I don’t feel sorry for his death. His death is beautiful; he has attained all that life is capable to give. But I certainly feel sorry for the whole world. It goes on missing its greatest flights of consciousnesses, its highest peaks, its brightest stars. It is too much concerned with trivia.

I feel such a deep affinity with Krishnamurti that even to talk of connection is not right; connection is possible only between two things which are separate. I feel almost a oneness with him. In spite of all his criticisms, in spite of all my criticisms—which were just joking with the old man, provoking the old man…and he was very easily provoked….

Krishnamurti’s teaching is beautiful, but too serious. And my experience and feeling is that his seventy years went to waste because he was serious. So only people who were long-faced and miserable and serious types collected around him; he was a collector of corpses, and as he became older, those corpses also became older.

I know people who have been listening to him for almost their whole lives; they are as old as he himself was. They are still alive. I know one woman who is ninety-five, and I know many other people. One thing I have seen in all of them, which is common, is that they are too serious.

Life needs a little playfulness, a little humor, a little laughter.

Only on that point am I in absolute disagreement with him; otherwise, he was a genius. He has penetrated as deeply as possible into every dimension of man’s spirituality, but it is all like a desert, tiring.

I would like you back in the garden of Eden, innocent, not serious, but like small children playing. This whole existence is playful. This whole existence is full of humor; you just need the sense of humor and you will be surprised….Existence is hilarious. Everything is in a dancing mood, you just have to be in the same mood to understand it.

[Tweet theme=”tweet-box-shadow”]Existence is hilarious. Everything is in a dancing mood, you just have to be in the same mood to understand it.[/Tweet]I am not sorry that J. Krishnamurti is dead; there was nothing more for him to attain. I am sorry that his teaching did not reach the human heart because it was too dry, juiceless, with no humor, no laughter.
But you will be surprised to know—whatever he was saying was against religions, was against politics, was against the status quo, was against the whole past, yet nobody was condemning him for the simple reason that he was ineffective. There was no reason to take note of him….

Krishnamurti failed because he could not touch the human heart; he could only reach the human head.

The heart needs some different approaches. This is where I have differed with him all my life: unless the human heart is reached, you can go on repeating parrot-like, beautiful words—they don’t mean anything.

Whatever Krishnamurti was saying is true, but he could not manage to relate it to your heart. In other words, what I am saying is that J. Krishnamurti was a great philosopher but he could not become a master. He could not help people, prepare people for a new life, a new orientation.

But still I love him, because amongst the philosophers he comes the closest to the mystic way of life. He himself avoided the mystic way, bypassed it, and that is the reason for his failure.

But he is the only one amongst the modern contemporary thinkers who comes very close, almost on the boundary line of mysticism, and stops there. Perhaps he’s afraid that if he talks about mysticism people will start falling into old patterns, old traditions, old philosophies of mysticism. That fear prevents him from entering. But that fear also prevents other people from entering into the mysteries of life….

I have met thousands of Krishnamurti people—because anybody who has been interested in Krishnamurti sooner or later is bound to find his way towards me, because where Krishnamurti leaves them, I can take their hand and lead them into the innermost shrine of truth.

You can say my connection with Krishnamurti is that Krishnamurti has prepared the ground for me. He has prepared people intellectually for me; now it is my work to take those people deeper than intellect, to the heart; and deeper than the heart, to the being.

Our work is one. Krishnamurti is dead, but his work will not be dead until I am dead. His work will continue.

 

I am that:

Question: Osho, Can an enlightened person be wrong? This referes to what you told us about J. Krishnamurti, who keeps on saying that one does not need a master, which is actually not right. Please comment.

Answer: Prem Pantha, An Enlightened person can never be wrong. Neither J. Krishnamurti is wrong, but he never considers the situation in which you are. He considers only the space in which he is, and that freedom is part of enlightenment. The enlightened person has reached the highest peak of consciousness; his abode is on Everest.

Now it is his freedom to speak according to the peak, the sunlit peak where he is, or to consider the people who are still in the dark valley, who know nothing about the light, for whom the peak of the Everest is only a dream, only a perhaps”. This is the freedom of the enlightened person. Krishnamurti speaks in terms where he is.

I speak in terms where you are, I consider you, because if I am speaking to you, you have to be taken in consideration. I have to lead you towards the highest peak, but the journey will begin in the dark valley, in your unconsciousness. If I talk about my experience, absolutely inconsiderate of you, I am right, but I am not useful to you.

An enlightened person is never wrong, but he can be useful or he can be useless. J. Krishnamurti is useless! for us because we cannot think to his level.

He is perfectly right; about that there is no question, because I know the peak and what he is saying is certainly true — from the vision of the peak.

Those who have arrived, for them the journey becomes almost a dream phenomenon. For those who have not arrived the journey is real, the goal is just a dream. They are living in two different worlds.

When you are talking to a madman you have to consider him; if you don’t consider him you cannot help him.

Once a madman was brought to me. He had this crazy idea that one afternoon when he was sleeping, a fly has entered his mouth. And because he used to sleep with open mouth, nobody can deny the possibility. And since then he was very much disturbed because the fly was roaming inside him, jumping inside him, moving in his belly, going to his bladder, circulating in his bloodstream, sometimes in his head, sometimes in his feet. And of course he could not do anything because he was continuously occupied, obsessed with the fly.

He was taken to the psychoanalysts and they said, “This is just in your mind — there is no fly! And no fly can move in your bloodstream, there is no possibility. Even if a fly has entered it must have died! And now six months have passed; it cannot be alive inside you.”

He listened, but he could not believe it because his experience was far more solid. He was taken to the doctors and everybody examined him and they did everything, but finally they will say, “It is just a mental thing. You are imagining.” He will listen what they were saying, but he could not trust because his experience was far more certain than their words.

His family brought him to me as a last resort. The man was looking very tired because he was being taken to one person, then to another, then all kinds of physicians — allopaths and homeopaths and naturopaths — and he was really tired.

In the first place the fly was tiring him, and now all these “pathies”, medicines. And everybody was insulting him — that was his feeling, that they were saying that he was just imagining. Is he a fool or he is mad, that he will imagine such a thing? They were all humiliating him — that was his feeling.

I looked at the man and I said, “It is so clear that the fly is inside!”
For a moment he was puzzled. He could not believe me, because nobody has said that to him — because nobody has considered him. And they ALL were right and I was wrong — there was no fly, but the madman has to be considered.

And I said, “All those fools are just wasting your time; you should have come first here. It is such a simple thing to bring the fly out; there is no need to bother. Medicines won’t help — you are not ill. Psycholanalysis will not help — you are not crazy.”

And immediately he was a changed man! He looked at his wife and said, “Now what do you say? This is the right man,” he said, “who really knows. And all those fools were trying to convince me that there is no fly. It is there!”
I said to him that, “It is simple — we will take it out. You lie down.”

I covered him with a blanket and told him to keep his eyes closed and “I will do some mantra, some magic, and we will bring the fly out. You just keep quiet so that the fly sits somewhere. Otherwise the fly is continuously running — where to catch it?”

He said, “That looks logical. I will keep absolutely still!”
And I said, “Don’t open your eyes. Just remain silent, breathe slowly, so the fly settles somewhere, so we can catch hold of it!”

Then I rushed into the house to find a fly. It was a little bit difficult because for the first time I was trying that, but finally I succeeded — I could get a fly in a bottle. And I came to the man, I moved my hand on his body, and I asked him, “Where the fly is?” And he said, “In the belly.” And I touched the belly and I said, “Of course it is there!” And I convinced him that I perfectly believe in him and then I uncovered his blanket and showed him the fly.

And he said to the wife, “Now see! And give this bottle to me; I will go all to those fools and take all the fees that they have taken from me! I have wasted thousands of rupees, and all that they did was they told me I am mad! And now I don’t feel the fly anywhere, because it is in the bottle!”

He took the bottle, he went to the doctors.One of the doctors who knew me, he came to see me. He said, “How you managed? Six months a fly can live in the body? And that man has taken his fee back from me, because he was making such a fuss that I said, ‘Better give it back to him!’ And he proved that he was right!” I said, “It is not the point who is right.”

Gautam the Buddha defines truth as “that which works”. This is the ancient most pragmatic definition of truth: “that which works”!

[Tweet theme=”tweet-box-shadow”]Gautam the Buddha defines truth as “that which works”.[/Tweet]

All the devices are truth in this sense: they work; they are only devices. The Buddha’s work is Upaya; Upaya exactly means device.

Meditation is an Upaya, a device. It simply helps you to get rid of that which you have not got in the first place — the fly: the ego, the misery, the anguish! It helps you to get free of it, but in fact it is not there. But it is not to be told…

And Krishnamurti has been doing that: he has been telling crazy people that the fly does not exist and you don’t need any doctor.

I say to you: the fly exists and you need the doctor! Because just by telling to you that the fly does not exist is not going to help you at all.

For thousands of years you have been told the ego does not exist. Has it helped you in any way? There have been people who have told, in this country particularly, that the whole world is illusory, MAYA, it does not exist, but has it helped India in any way?

The true test is there: whether it has helped, whether it has made people more authentic, more real. It has not helped at all. It has made people more deeply cunning, split, schizophrenic; it has made them hypocrites.

All the religions have done this, because they don’t consider you. And you are far more important than the ultimate truth, because the ultimate truth has nothing to do with you right now.

You are living in a dreamworld; some device is needed which can help you to come out of it. The moment you are out of it, you will know it was a dream — but a person who is dreaming, to tell him that it is all dream is meaningless.

Have you not observed in your dreams that when you are dreaming it looks real? And every morning you have found that it was unreal. But again in the night you forget all your understanding of the day — again the dream becomes real.

It has been happening again and again: every night the dream becomes real, every morning you know it is false, but that knowing does not help. In the dream one can even dream that this is a dream.

And that’s what has happened in India: people are living in maya, deeply in it, and still talking that “This is all maya.”

And this talk too is part of their dream; it does not destroy the dream. In fact it makes the dream more rooted in them, because now there is no need to get rid of it — because it is a dream! So why get rid of it? It does not matter.

In a subtle way all the religions have done this: they have talked from the highest peak to the people for whom that peak does not exist yet. The people are living in darkness, and you go on telling them that darkness has no existence.

It is true — darkness has no existence, it is only the absence of light — but just by saying to people that darkness has no existence is not going to bring light in.

That’s what Krishnamurti is doing; it has been done by many people. Nagarjuna did it — Krishnamurti is not new, not at least in the East.

Nagarjuna did it: he said, “Everything is false. The world is false, the ego is false, nothing exists. Because nothing exists you are already free. There is no need for any meditation, there is no need for any Master. There is no need to find out any device, strategy, technique, because in the first place there is no problem. Why go on looking for solutions? Those solutions will create more problems; they are not going to help.”

Nagarjuna did it; before Nagarjuna, Mahakashyap did it, and it has been a long tradition. Zen people have been saying the same thing for centuries. Krishnamurti never uses the word “Zen”, but whatsoever he is talking is nothing but Zen — simple Zen.

Zen says no effort is needed, nothing has to be done. When nothing has to be done, what is the need of a Master? — because the Master will tell you to do something.

Nothing has to be done — what is the need of the scriptures? — because the scriptures will tell you to do something, to know something. Nothing has to be done, nothing has to be known. You are already there where you are trying to reach.

And I know this is true, but to talk about this ultimate truth to people who are living in tremendous darkness is futile .

Prem Pantha, no enlightened person can ever be wrong, but only few enlightened persons have been of help. The majority of enlightened people have been of no help at all, for the simple reason because they never considered the other.

In fact, George Gurdjieff used to say, “Don’t consider the other.” It was one of his basic teachings: “Don’t consider the other. Just say what is absolutely true.” But the absolute truth is truth only when experienced; people are living in relative truth.

My approach is different from Krishnamurti’s. I know that one day you will come to that point where nothing is needed — no Master, no teaching, no scripture — but right now the scripture can be of help, the methods can be of help, and certainly a living Master can be of immense help.

The function of the Master is to give you that which you already have and to take away that which you don’t have at all.

 

I am that #Session 3

J. Krishnamurti is a beautiful man but one-dimensional, very linear, one line; he follows one track. Hence you will not find any contradictions in him.

For fifty years he has been repeating simply the same thing again and again. Unknowingly he has conditioned people; just by repeating the same thing again and again for fifty years he has hypnotized people.

He has created a great difficulty for those people: he is not a Master himself, he cannot impart his experience — he is an ARHATA, not a BODHISATTVA — and he has prevented those people from going into search for some other living Master.

He has created a real mess in many people: they would have been in search of a Master but he has prevented them. His logic is clear, appealing, very appealing to the egoist, particularly to the so-called intelligentsia, very appealing, because the so-called intellegentsia is always afraid of surrender, of dropping the ego — they are egoist people. And when he says, “There is no need to follow, there is no need to go to any Master, there is no need of any initiation,” they feel very happy. Their ego is saved but their ego is there.

Now the ego even has the support of Krishnamurti, and all his arguments will be used by the ego. And that’s what has happened to thousands of people who have listened to him. He has not been a blessing, because of his linear logic.

In the ancient days people like Krishnamurti used to remain silent. That was the way of the ARHATA — because he knows that he cannot impart, he has no skill, he remains silent. He does not go around the world telling people, that “I cannot impart and nobody else can do it either.”

This is for the first time an arhata has been trying to teach people, and of course it is a contradiction. The arhata is not supposed to teach, and when an arhata starts teaching he will teach against teaching, and the people who will become interested in him will be egoists.

You can find the very cultured egos around Krishnamurti, and they are there because he has become their rationalization: there is no need to surrender. And the irony is, the amazing fact is that Krishnamurti himself has passed through many initiations, he had many masters.

Socrates Poisoned Again after 25 Centuries #Session 16 

One thing I must say:there was another man who was enlightened who died just a few days ago, J. Krishnamurti. Without him I am feeling alone.

 

Osho on Jiddu Krishnamurti End.